They're Fighting For Your Right To Ban Them For Saying "Stop The Fighting."

Interesting (8.00 / 1)

That they decided to explicitly ban veterans from a veterans day parade.  That seems like all the branding one needs on this.

I'm proud to work for Barbara Boxer

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by: Lucas O'Connor @ Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 16:09:37 PM CST

what does Don Knabe think? n/t (0.00 / 0)

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by: Bob Brigham @ Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 17:14:31 PM CST

I struggled over this one (0.00 / 0)

As a Long Beach resident, I was at first really incensed that they would ban an anti-war group from the parade.

On the other hand, it's a private group. We shouldn't force them to give forum a message they disagree with.

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by: rdm24 @ Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 18:04:26 PM CST

You might say it's a private event (8.00 / 1)

but it's being held in a public space, using public resources.

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by: tface1000 @ Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 20:45:39 PM CST

[ Parent ]

They are still allowed to use it-- (0.00 / 0)

That's why it's a public space. Pro-war groups can use it, as can anti-war.

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by: rdm24 @ Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 21:21:52 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Of course (0.00 / 0)

but Veterans Day parades marching down the public street are a community event by their nature. I just think it's not really a very good defense to say it's private.

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by: tface1000 @ Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 21:41:23 PM CST

[ Parent ]

and yet their claim to the right to exclude the vets against the war (8.00 / 1)

is that it is an apolitical event. kind of gives the lie.

surf putah, your friendly neighborhood central valley samizdat

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by: wu ming @ Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 22:17:39 PM CST

[ Parent ]

I don't? (1.00 / 1)

"you don't have an inalienable right to march in a parade"

I don't have a right to do it if it endangers the public, nor do I have a right to rain in on someone else's parade, but otherwise, how is it not an inalienable right? American Heritage defines "inalienable" as "That cannot be transferred to another or others."

The Silent Consensus

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by: thelibertariandemocrat (VF2005) @ Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 18:13:36 PM CST

Tree People (0.00 / 0)

Ya know, if you looked beyond the tree, you might see that there's a forest out there.

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by: Be_Devine @ Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 19:11:04 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Amazing that (0.00 / 0)

I started using the forest vs. trees phrase, and suddenly everyone's using it

My question remains, how is it not an inalienable right?

The Silent Consensus

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by: thelibertariandemocrat (VF2005) @ Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 20:50:04 PM CST

[ Parent ]

it isn't about rights, it is about crappy (1.00 / 2)

This was a crappy decision. Online, people use the internet to point out crappy decisions and hold those responsible accountable. Same as the Denham recall, it is called participatory democracy and it is a good thing especially because it threatens your wingnut dogma.

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by: Bob Brigham @ Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 22:29:23 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Cut it out (0.00 / 0)

You don't need reasoned responses from me because you're more than capable of creating your own straw men to knock down. I am hardly a wingnut, but I'm gonna let you try proving I am. Name two views I have that make me a wingnut

The Silent Consensus

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by: thelibertariandemocrat (VF2005) @ Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 22:31:35 PM CST

[ Parent ]

your a nut (1.00 / 2)

Everything you say makes me think the exact opposite is the proper course.

If you didn't exist, we'd have to invent you.

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by: Bob Brigham @ Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 22:33:51 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Nice dodge (1.00 / 1)

If you're gonna call me a wingnut, you better be able to back it up. Again, name two views I have that make me a wingnut

The Silent Consensus

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by: thelibertariandemocrat (VF2005) @ Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 22:36:00 PM CST

[ Parent ]

Worth noting (8.00 / 3)

That veterans' parades are themselves a deeply political act, often reinforcing pro-military, pro-war frames and interpretations.

By turning down antiwar veterans, they are making the political statement that antiwar is anti vet, and that the only way to honor vets is to silence other voices.

You can check out any time you like but you can never leave

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by: Robert Cruickshank @ Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 18:52:31 PM CST

a difference of opinion (8.00 / 2)

I was at the Long Beach City Council meeting on Tuesday when Jason Lemieux and the MFSO members tried to get the council to intervene and allow them to march.  It was interesting seeing one of the councilmembers, Val Lerch, say the Council couldn't do anything because a non-profit group was in charge of the parade and that the city couldn't tell a non-profit how to run it's parade.  I say that it's interesting because the non-profit's board of directors has Val Lerch as a voting member.  He was one of the three people who voted to deny Veterans for Peace and Military Families Speak Out its application.

Next year, Mr. Lerch and other board members of the Veterans Day Parade Committee will have to adjust their parade schedule, to allow for many more applications from decorated veterans who oppose the war.  Perhaps by then, the Parade Committee will also have a different opinion.

November 8, 2008 is four days after the Presidential Election.

Eric

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by: Eric Bradley @ Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 19:50:37 PM CST

they should march anyways (8.00 / 3)

and make the parade people arrest them in their uniforms. make the hypocrisy clear, confuse the conflation of military and pro-war.

surf putah, your friendly neighborhood central valley samizdat

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by: wu ming @ Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 20:00:53 PM CST

I contacted the Committee (8.00 / 2)

And got a pretty rude response. I don't know if anyone else has been sending her nasty stuff, but I think she was very unprofessional in her response to me:

Quoted below:

HaDd they taken the trouble to submit an application, they might have been allowed to march.  They, like all other participants in the parade, must submit an application under their own name.  The parade is over.  Has been for two days.  Let it rest.  Spread the word to your other members that the continued harrassment will just impair their chances of being accepted next year.

Martha

> From: XXXXX
> Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2007 16:26:59 -0800
> To: XXXX
> Subject: Veteran's Day Parade
>
> As a Long Beach resident, I am glad that we have a parade to appreciate the efforts and sacrifices our veterans have made for our country. However, I am disappointed that the Veterans Day Parade Committee refused to let an anti-war group of veterans march.
>
> It's dishonest to claim that the Committee wanted to keep politics out of the parade--the very act of exclusion was itself a political act. Our veterans fought to preserve our freedoms, and no freedom is more cherished in America than the freedom of speech. The Committee failed to appreciate that, and in doing so dishonored the veterans.
>
> Introducing a political litmus test for who can and cannot march is an intolerable act of censorship. If the Committee cannot come up with a more acceptable and fair means of deciding who can participate in the parade in 2008, I will ask our City Council to organize alternative events, where we can show support for ALL our veterans.

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by: rdm24 @ Mon Nov 12, 2007 at 21:24:00 PM CST