CA-47: Loretta Sanchez, People's Environmental Champion

As far as I can tell (8.00 / 2)

Republican support for the 241 extension isn't about the details - which as you note, are not in the project's favor - but instead about the rhetoric, about not wanting to ever cave in to environmentalists on anything. These are the same people still try to tell us global warming was a lie, and the same individual (Mr. Republican Insider) who came here and with a straight face tried to tell us the Iraq War was still a good idea.

The 241 extension is going to have to be significantly rerouted if it is going to survive, which is as it should be - the route that was chosen makes no sense. Loretta Sanchez did the right thing in helping to block it, and she deserves all the credit you're giving her.

You can check out any time you like but you can never leave

---

by: Robert Cruickshank @ Sat May 12, 2007 at 19:41:11 PM UTC

It's about development, period. (8.00 / 2)

That's the ugly truth about this project. The big SoCal developers and their friends in TCA want to build the toll road to Trestles because they want MORE DEVELOPMENT. Even though they even have Rancho Mission Viejo slated for development in the foothills of South County, that's STILL not enough for them. They want San Onofre next, and they can just smell the good killin' they'll make from all those new "oceanfront homes" along what was once Trestles.

THAT'S what I'm worried about here. If TCA gets its toll road to Trestles, the park simply couldn't survive. California State Parks wouldn't be able to renew the lease when it comes up soon, and once the military is ready to sell, the developers would be ready to buy. And then, the last great stretch of pristine coastline would be lost to more disgusting McMansions, snarling traffic, and basically everything else that we hate about Southern California sprawl today.

Thank goodness we have members of Congress like Loretta Sanchez who have the foresight to make sure that TCA follows the law, and that they don't just create roads that just create MORE TRAFFIC and MORE OVERDEVELOPMENT. : )

Had enough of the "red county" right-wing crazy-talk bulls***? Well, then come and visit us at The Liberal OC! Yes, there ARE liberals in The OC! : )

---

by: Andrew Davey (atdleft) @ Sat May 12, 2007 at 20:04:27 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Bingo (8.00 / 1)

And that raises an even more fundamental concern: resisting the pressure to sell off state and even federal assets to get a quick fix of money in a financial crisis - like the current effort to sell off the lottery, or Indiana's selling off its toll road to a Spanish-Australian consortium. California has a LOT of very valuable land in conservation in the state park system, from San Onofre to the redwoods of the North Coast. It has to be protected, from both encroachment as well as sale and development.

The next phase of neoliberalism in the US is going to be the selling off of such public assets. Anything that slows or stops that process is a good thing, and kudos to Susan Davis and Loretta Sanchez for standing up to it.

You can check out any time you like but you can never leave

---

by: Robert Cruickshank @ Sat May 12, 2007 at 22:06:09 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Who needs parks? (0.00 / 0)

That's what these GOP insiders must think to themselves. They have nice, big yards. They have great oceanfront manors in Corona del Mar. So why do they need this ridiculous park in San Onofre when they "need" to get to links in Rancho Santa Fe faster?

Now for all the rest of us who can't afford $40 million CdM oceanfront manors, places like San Onofre ARE OUR COASTAL ESCAPES. These public beaches are OUR BEACHES, and they give all of us a chance to enjoy the coast. This coast is OUR COAST, and these wealthy GOP insiders don't get it.

That's why I'm so concerned about this. For regular working-class folks in Santa Ana, places like San Onofre are their chance to get away and enjoy the beach. They can't afford the $500 per night rates of the Montage and the Balboa Bay Club, and they can't afford to buy an expensive McMansion in Monarch Beach or Newport Coast. They just want to enjoy the beach.

Public vs. private. THAT'S the issue here. Will the pristine beach be available to everyone, or will it be "civilized" (polluted), and cut into portions to be sold to the highest bidder?

This is another issue that we need to think about here.

Had enough of the "red county" right-wing crazy-talk bulls***? Well, then come and visit us at The Liberal OC! Yes, there ARE liberals in The OC! : )

---

by: Andrew Davey (atdleft) @ Sat May 12, 2007 at 23:41:24 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Right on, brother. (8.00 / 1)

I remember weekend camping trips to San Onofre State Beach. We went down there at least 3-4 times a year in the late '80s and early '90s. It was wonderful. Even thought the "campground" was basically right along a long paved strip of the former highway 101 itself adjacent to I-5, the walk through the scrubland and down the bluff to the beach was like a walk back in time, before the massive sprawl. By the time you reached the water you might as well have been in a spot in rural Baja - just the campers and some surfers. It was cheap, it was wonderful. An escape accessible to OCers of all economic means.

OC in particular has had to fight tooth and nail for every piece of waterfront access, public space, and open land preservation it has. Developers are *constantly* seeking to plow up native flora and pristine coastline to build more mansions, to privatize the land and lock it up for the wealthy.

Do you remember the fight over the 73 toll road in Laguna Canyon? In the late '80s the city put up a sign on Laguna Canyon Road, in what was then pristine coastal canyonland, reading "A proposed toll road will cross the canyon at this point. It will be 200 feet high and 800 yards across," an attempt to show drivers how the toll road would destroy the canyon. I used to try and visualize what that would look like, and I couldn't really picture it. After it was built and opened, I drove down Laguna Canyon Road, and it was a more massive monstrosity than I could have imagined.

Development and Republican interests simply will not stop until all the open land and preserved spaces are developed and destroyed. We've got to make a stand, and the 241 extension is the place to do it.

You can check out any time you like but you can never leave

---

by: Robert Cruickshank @ Sun May 13, 2007 at 00:51:55 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Is that a royal "we"? (0.00 / 0)

Andrew:

I didn't realize you were the personification of the people of the 47th CD; the incarnation of their desires and aspirations; the vessel through which they make their wishes known.

And you might try posting pictures of the actual alignment for a change, instead of areas the tollroad route won't touch. But that would be a little too factual for your tastes.

---

by: MattC @ Sun May 13, 2007 at 00:46:27 AM UTC

Seriously dude (8.00 / 2)

Last rat off the sinking ship is a rotten egg.

---

by: Lucas O'Connor @ Sun May 13, 2007 at 00:54:12 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

I think it's safe to say (8.00 / 1)

That Loretta Sanchez' ten years in office are a pretty good indication of their trust in her to reflect their desires and aspirations. I am unsurprised that ten years later you folks still have not accepted the fact that you and your party and its "vision" for the state have been consistently rejected by voters in the 47th.

But then you still haven't grasped voters' rejection of your war in Iraq, so I am not exactly hopeful that even another ten years for Loretta will convince you of anything.

You can check out any time you like but you can never leave

---

by: Robert Cruickshank @ Sun May 13, 2007 at 00:56:40 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Just ignore Matt/Jubal... (0.00 / 0)

It makes life SO MUCH EASIER, trust me! ; )

No really, you're right. These OC GOP insiders just don't get it. Matt/Jubal can continue crowing about "Loony Loretta" all he wants, but the truth of the matter is that we find THESE OC GOP INSIDERS TO BE THE LOONY ONES for denying reality on everything from Bush's failed Iraq War to the coming climate catastrophe that we can no longer continue to ignore. Loretta gets it, and so do we. That's why we keep sending her back to Congress.

So they can go ahead and run Van Tran (ya know, the one with the criminal wife) for this seat whenever they want. They can't win, and they won't ever win. We actually like it when our representatives care more about doing what's best for us instead of just enriching oneself fraudulently and ILLEGALLY.

Just sayin'. : )


Had enough of the "red county" right-wing crazy-talk bulls***? Well, then come and visit us at The Liberal OC! Yes, there ARE liberals in The OC! : )

---

by: Andrew Davey (atdleft) @ Sun May 13, 2007 at 02:27:07 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

With all due respect (0.00 / 0)

If you really think we should ignore him, then stop putting up posts about him.

---

by: Lucas O'Connor @ Sun May 13, 2007 at 04:54:33 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

I swear, sarcasm is lost... (0.00 / 0)

Somewhere between thinking a comment in my head and posting it online. I guess that's the dilemma of blogging. Emotions don't come out as well in typed word. ; )

Had enough of the "red county" right-wing crazy-talk bulls***? Well, then come and visit us at The Liberal OC! Yes, there ARE liberals in The OC! : )

---

by: Andrew Davey (atdleft) @ Sun May 13, 2007 at 05:51:09 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

sarcastic or not (0.00 / 0)

worth considering.

also; you keep using that word. i do not think it means what you think it means.

---

by: Lucas O'Connor @ Sun May 13, 2007 at 05:58:48 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Funny way of ingoring me (0.00 / 0)

Your Royal Highness:

For a guy who advises ignoring me, you sure spend a lot of time blogging about me.

---

by: MattC @ Mon May 14, 2007 at 15:18:19 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Don't you have something better to do? (0.00 / 0)

After all, you seem to be spending plenty of time here and Liberal OC. For a guy who's supposed to be so big in Orange County Republican politics, you sure spend a lot of time on these liberal sites arguing with us.

Now excuse me while I get back to doing something productive.

Had enough of the "red county" right-wing crazy-talk bulls***? Well, then come and visit us at The Liberal OC! Yes, there ARE liberals in The OC! : )

---

by: Andrew Davey (atdleft) @ Mon May 14, 2007 at 16:19:45 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

LOL (0.00 / 0)

Andrew, you're the guy who inflates me into some kind of "Mr Insider" boogey-man.

It's fun commenting on your posts. They're so often rife with errors, exaggeration and imagined-reality.

---

by: MattC @ Mon May 14, 2007 at 18:05:43 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Haha (0.00 / 0)

Matt/Jubal, you make me laugh! I guess since there's no good argument for extending the toll road to Trestles, you folks just have to attack the messengers. Oh yes, it's so so fun responding your comments. They're only proving the real emptiness in conservative politics today.

Until later, tata! ; )

Had enough of the "red county" right-wing crazy-talk bulls***? Well, then come and visit us at The Liberal OC! Yes, there ARE liberals in The OC! : )

---

by: Andrew Davey (atdleft) @ Mon May 14, 2007 at 18:55:06 PM UTC

[ Parent ]

Take a look int he mirror youngster (0.00 / 0)

I guess since there's no good argument for extending the toll road to Trestles, you folks just have to attack the messengers.

Andrew, you are the king of attack the messenger. Refer to any post you make about me, for just one example. There are plenty of good arguments for the toll road completion, but your response is simply assert there are none, and to back it up you continuing asserting there are none. You post opinions as if they are incontrovertible fact, struggle with honest debate, are sloppy with facts and post things that are flat-out untrue.

Your game of posting pictures of the state beach that won't even be touched by the completed 241 is just one example of your disingenuous, intell3ectually lazy approach to debate.

And I don't say this because you are liberal. I have liberal and Democratic friends (bloggers and non-bloggers) with whom I debate and disagree -- but we all stay within the realm of fact, and when we venture into the realm of pure opinion and conjecture, we say as much.

You conflate the two, and it just devalues the time and effort you obviously put into your blogging.

---

by: MattC @ Tue May 15, 2007 at 01:14:08 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

No, I just deal with FACTS. (0.00 / 0)

There are plenty of good arguments for the toll road completion, but your response is simply assert there are none

Oh, really. Maybe that's just because I've been taking those "good arguments" for extending the toll road to Trestles, and taking them down with the FACTS. I do my best not to just "make assertions" like certain others do regarding this subject. I don't just look at TCA's web site and jump for joy... I've been doing my homework, and that's why I concluded that this toll road to nowhere isn't worth it.

And you seem not to like my pictures. You say that they have nothing to do with this toll road, but you're missing something HUGE. The proposed extension that TCA wants would run alongside San Mateo Creek. The construction of the toll road would most likely alter the sediment flow of the creek, altering the waves crashing onto Trestles beach at the mouth of the creek. And oh yes, how about all that polluted runoff from the toll road making its way to the creek. TCA can keep talking about "making the creek CLEANER with the toll road" until all their faces turn blue, but not even the supposed filtration systems they install (if this actually ever happens) could undo all the damage they'd do to the creek, and the ocean downstream.

Sorry, but I don't neuter the facts for ANYONE. And no, I'm not just saying this because you're a Republican. I have Republican friends that I enjoy talking to, as we can all handle a mature conversation that involves FACTS. And yes, there are liberal/progressive folks in the blogosphere that I just don't try to talk to because they'd rather scream about bizarre conspiracies than discuss the FACTS. I just prefer to discuss FACTS, and build up from there. I guess that's why I feel right at home in the reality-based community.

Please do come back soon if you'd like to rationally discuss the FACTS. Ideas just seem so much more realistic when you base them on FACTS. : )

Had enough of the "red county" right-wing crazy-talk bulls***? Well, then come and visit us at The Liberal OC! Yes, there ARE liberals in The OC! : )

---

by: Andrew Davey (atdleft) @ Tue May 15, 2007 at 01:58:58 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

You wanna talk about distracting from the point (8.00 / 2)

Every derisive age-based comment just makes you look even more sad.  Sagging balls does not equate to added intelligence or insight, so spare us the 'young people are dumber than me' lines.  If you have a point to make, knock yourself out, but the superfluous crap just wastes everyone's time.  And you've burned a lot more of it than many of the rest of us, so you may want to give it a second thought.

---

by: Lucas O'Connor @ Tue May 15, 2007 at 02:30:25 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Thanks, Lucas. (0.00 / 0)

I appreciated that. I may not be the wisest person in the blogosphere, but I try not to be stupid. I always try my best to do my homework before starting any story, and I must admit that I feel hurt when a colleague attacks me with such vicious language.

So thanks, Lucas. I guess this just proves to me who my real friends are.

Had enough of the "red county" right-wing crazy-talk bulls***? Well, then come and visit us at The Liberal OC! Yes, there ARE liberals in The OC! : )

---

by: Andrew Davey (atdleft) @ Tue May 15, 2007 at 02:40:03 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Well (8.00 / 1)

If ever you are stupid, I have a hard time imagining that it's because of your age. I've mostly stayed out of this stuff for a variety of reasons, but christ. Debate the issues or go home.

---

by: Lucas O'Connor @ Tue May 15, 2007 at 02:47:34 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Or... (8.00 / 2)

the state/county could, I don't know actually build some public transportation. That would be nice, but I guess a little global warming won't really hurt Orange County, right? I mean, it's not like people down there really need to drink water.

Andrew has been a bit too soft on the plan for 241, if you ask me. He thinks they should just use a different route. For me, I say don't build the road at all. Build a decent system of rail travel that will actually reduce the traffic flows in Orange County, rather than just feeding people from the Great McMansions in South Orange County into the Orange Crush and up into LA Cty.

At some point the people of SoCal will figure out that  highway construction can only take you to a certain point. The sprawl eventually will overwhelm the infrastructure, even if you keep on building roads.

So, go build your road, destroy another beach, another habitat. No big whoop, birds just get in the of the SUV of progress.

I think?

---

by: Brian Leubitz @ Sun May 13, 2007 at 01:02:52 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Wha? (8.00 / 1)

Didn't you know, Brian, that to support light rail in the OC, like the failed CenterLine project proposal, is to hate freedom and support the inherent totalitarianism of 'New Urbanism'?!

To OC Republicans, roads and sprawl are the product of a free market, and only things like light rail are socialist. This is a convenient lie, as roads and sprawl have ALWAYS been subsidized by the government in innumerable forms since the 1920s. Since the 1950s OC wingnuts have been creating the convenient fiction that this system of sprawl is merely the free market at work, and only a Communist would oppose it. One might say we can't fault MattC for simply drinking this kool-aid without question, but folks like Andrew and I grew up in the OC and somehow we learned the truth.

Orange County today is the product of bad decisions in the present compounding the bad decisions of the past. Reining in sprawl and getting people to live closer to their jobs - something virtually every OCer I know (and I know plenty of them) wants - is not going to be easy. But building a toll road extension isn't going to provide that and we all know it. It's time for OC to make a break from government-subsidized sprawl and instead encourage the kind of urban development that its residents are clamoring for.

You can check out any time you like but you can never leave

---

by: Robert Cruickshank @ Sun May 13, 2007 at 01:31:51 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Just give us some time, Brian. (0.00 / 0)

Yes, public transportation is good. Yes, we need more it down here in OC. However, it will take us some more time to get more comfortable with it, and for us to finally build it.

For now, let's look at an alternative route for the 241 Extension. Let's just give South County motorists A REAL CHANCE to cut down their commute time, instead of just building a TOLL ROAD TO NOWHERE THAT WOULD DO NOTHING TO RELIEVE TRAFFIC. However in the meantime, let's also invest in expanding Metrolink service in South County. And yes, let's ultimately work toward getting light rail in OC.

It's happening, slowly but surely. Support is growing for a "Metrolink extension" commuter rail line between Anaheim and Huntington Beach. Local officials see the value (as in oodles more money to be made) in allowing tourists to part with their money more easily by moving them between Disneyland and the Great Surf City, USA. Irvine wants to add light rail to its master plan for "smarter growth". It's happening, just a little more slowly than I had originally hoped for. We need a little more time to get used to it, but it will happen.

We get it, Brian. Just give us a little more time. We're slowly accepting it, and we'll ultimately find a way to make money off it and feel glamorous while riding it! ; )

Had enough of the "red county" right-wing crazy-talk bulls***? Well, then come and visit us at The Liberal OC! Yes, there ARE liberals in The OC! : )

---

by: Andrew Davey (atdleft) @ Sun May 13, 2007 at 02:15:17 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

Well, as eugene mentioned (0.00 / 0)

It's just more government subsidies for people wanting what they shouldn't have, and getting it through government largesse.

As I said in the past with Arnold's bonds, roads alone are not the answer. At this point, Arnold is the heroin-pusher. He keeps giving the OCers more of that good, good stuff, and they just keep on freebasing it. Someday, we're all going to OD on it.

I think?

---

by: Brian Leubitz @ Sun May 13, 2007 at 05:57:12 AM UTC

[ Parent ]

What would be even cooler? (8.00 / 1)

If Loretta Sanchez took more advice from her awesome sister. I'm just sayin'

I think?

---

by: Brian Leubitz @ Sun May 13, 2007 at 00:49:15 AM UTC