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Prop 8 Decision Tuesday!

by: Be_Devine

Fri May 22, 2009 at 10:00:00 AM PDT


(It's tomorrow at 10 AM. If you're in SF, come down to the CA Sup. Ct (400 McAllister). Otherwise, check some of these websites for information on events in your area. - promoted by Brian Leubitz)

Ready for a nervous long weekend?  The California Supreme Court just announced that it will publish its decision in the Prop 8 case Tuesday morning at 10:00 a.m. 

If you want to be the first to read the opinion when it's issued, you can get a copy straight from the horse's mouth here or here.  Otherwise, I'm sure there will be plenty of analysis and commentary here on Tuesday morning.

A bunch of pro-equality groups are organizing Day of Decision celebrations/protests around the state and around the country.  (I really, really wish they would stop referring to the event as "D-Day").  The events will happen Tuesday night.  Check out the location of the celebration/protest in your area here.  Also, check out the Meet in the Middle 4 Equality event which will take place at Fresno City Hall at 1:00 p.m. next Saturday (May 30th).  That's the same day as the National Center for Lesbian Rights' 30th Anniversary Celebration in San Francisco.  NCLR has done so much to advance marriage equality (Shannon Minter rocks!) that it would be a shame to miss the NCLR Celebration on Saturday night.  But it's only a 3 1/2 hour drive from Fresno to SF, so if you plan it right, you can have a fun-packed day of celebration (fingers crossed).

For those of you who want a refresher of the legal arguments in the case, I have reposted on the flip an article that I published in the California Litigation Reporter, a monthly publication of the Continuing Education arm of the California State Bar.  If nothing else, it will put you to sleep on these four nervous nights we have ahead.  Also, Melissa Griffin (Sweet Melissa) has much more lively analysis of the oral argument and provides her counting-of-the-noses predictions here. We also had a lively discussion of tea-leaf-reading and predictions earlier this week on Calitics here.

So now join me, Brian L., and the pugs as we pace back and forth in the living room for three long days. . . .

Be_Devine :: Prop 8 Decision Tuesday!
Overstepping The Limited Power to Amend the Constitution: The Argument Against Proposition 8

Introduction

Imagine if a majority of the voters passed an initiative that amended the California Constitution to prohibit people of a minority faith from practicing their religion. We would not stand for this change because the fundamental purpose of our Constitution is to protect minority rights from being trampled by the majority. Proposition 8 (Cal Const art I, §7.5) is similarly flawed. Passed by the voters in November, Proposition 8 eliminates the fundamental constitutional right of gay men and lesbian women to marry the person of their choosing. It depends on the premise that a simple majority can pass an initiative that strips a protected minority group of its fundamental constitutional rights.

Fortunately, our Constitution provides an express safeguard against this type of change. Because of the permanent and abiding nature of our Constitution, the power to change it through the initiative process is limited. An initiative may effect a change only if it is “within the lines” of the existing Constitution. Livermore v Waite (1894) 102 C 113, 118, 36 P 424. On the other hand, it may not “substantially alter the purpose” of the Constitution or attempt to “attain objectives clearly beyond the lines of the Constitution as now cast.” McFadden v Jordan (1948) 32 C2d 330, 350, 196 P2d 787. This article argues that, because Proposition 8 falls into the latter category, it oversteps the limited power to amend the Constitution through the initiative process.

 

Setting The Stage

Until recently, California’s laws expressly limited marriage to opposite-sex couples. Fam C §§300, 308.5. San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom openly defied these laws in February 2004 when he directed the county clerk to begin issuing marriage licenses to all couples, regardless of gender or sexual orientation. The ensuing legal battle culminated in May 2008 when the California Supreme Court sided with Mayor Newsom and held that gay men and lesbian women are entitled to enjoy the basic and inalienable constitutional right to marry the person of their choosing. In re Marriage Cases (2008) 43 C4th 757, 829, 76 CR3d 683. Laws that deny them this right violate California Constitution’s guarantee of equal protection. 43 C4th at 855.

Proposition 8 is a ballot initiative that attempts to reverse the court’s decision in Marriage Cases and eliminate the right of gay men and lesbian women to marry. It amends California’s Constitution to state that: “Only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California.” Cal Const art I, §7.5. In last November’s election, the voters approved Proposition 8, 52 percent to 48 percent.

The day after the election, recently-married couples, together with civil rights groups and several cities and counties, filed petitions challenging Proposition 8. The petitions requested the supreme court to issue a writ of mandate directing state officials to refrain from implementing, enforcing, or applying Proposition 8. The central argument advanced by the petitioners is that Proposition 8 oversteps the power of the people to amend the Constitution. This power is limited by Article XVIII of the California Constitution, and extends only to making changes that are within the lines of the existing Constitution. Changes that affect the underlying principles on which the Constitution is based are referred to as “revisions.” A valid constitutional revision must undergo a rigorous and deliberative process and it cannot be approved through the initiative process.

The California Supreme Court agreed to hear three of the petitions and it requested that the parties brief three issues: First, is Proposition 8 invalid because it constitutes a revision of, rather than an amendment to the California Constitution? Second, does Proposition 8 violate the separation of powers doctrine under the California Constitution? Third, if Proposition 8 is not unconstitutional, what is its effect, if any, on the marriages of same-sex couples performed before the adoption of Proposition 8?

This article focuses on the primary issue presented by the petitions before the Supreme Court: that Proposition 8 is invalid because it oversteps the limited power to amend the constitution through the initiative process.

The Limited Power to Amend The Constitution

Although the power of the electorate to amend our Constitution by ballot initiative is broad and deserving of jealous protection, it is far from absolute. A simple majority of voters may amend the Constitution through the initiative process. On the other hand, a constitutional revision is valid only if it undergoes a process that is much more deliberative than a political campaign. Amador Valley Joint Union High Sch. Dist. v State Bd. of Equalization (1978) 22 C3d 208, 221, 149 CR 239. A constitutional revision is valid if the legislature approves the change by a two-thirds vote in both houses and the voters ratify the change proposed by the legislature. Cal Const, art XVIII, §1. Alternatively, a revision is valid if the legislature, by two-thirds vote in both houses, convenes a constitutional convention and the voters ratify a change that is proposed by the convention. Cal Const, art XVIII, § 2. These are the only two ways that a constitutional revision may be validly effected. Because the initiative process may not be used to revise the Constitution, Proposition 8 is not valid if it is a revision.

The Amendment/Revision Distinction

Whether Proposition 8 is a revision or an amendment depends on whether or not it changes the underlying principles in the existing Constitution.

In the first case to discuss the distinction between an amendment and a revision, the supreme court recognized: “The very term ‘constitution’ implies an instrument of a permanent and abiding nature, and the provisions contained therein for its revision indicate the will of the people that the underlying principles upon which it rests, as well as the substantial entirety of the instrument, shall be of a like permanent and abiding nature.” Livermore v Waite (1894) 102 C 113, 118, 36 P 424. The court recognized that the process necessary to effect a revision — a constitutional convention — ensures that “the entire sovereignty … is represented.” 102 C at 117. Because the entire sovereignty is represented at a constitutional convention, the constitutional changes that can be effected through that process are “freed from any limitations other than those contained in the constitution of the United States.” Livermore v Waite, supra. Conversely, the entire sovereignty is not represented in the process to amend the Constitution. As a result, the power to amend the Constitution is limited. In defining this limitation, the court in Livermore said that “the term ‘amendment’ implies such an addition or change within the lines of the original instrument as will effect an improvement, or better carry out the purpose for which it was framed.” 102 C at 118 (emphasis added).

The power to pass laws and constitutional amendments — but not constitutional revisions — through the initiative process was created in 1911, 17 years after the supreme court decided Livermore. The first case to discuss the amendment/revision distinction in the context of an initiative involved a proposed amendment that would have added over 21,000 words to the existing Constitution and affected 15 of its 25 articles. McFadden v Jordan (1948) 32 C2d 330, 345, 196 P2d 787. Addressing this proposed amendment, the supreme court first held that the same definitions and analysis articulated in Livermore apply to constitutional amendments enacted through the initiative process. 32 C2d at 332. Applying these definitions, the court found that the proposed amendment far exceeded the limited power to amend the Constitution through the initiative process. The court held that the proposed amendment was an improper revision because its effect “would be to substantially alter the purpose and to attain objectives clearly beyond the lines of the Constitution as now cast.” 32 C2d at 350.

Since McFadden, the court consistently has applied the Livermore standard and has held that changes to the underlying principles of our Constitution must be stricken as invalid revisions. Of course, a change does not necessarily need to be as complex or verbose as the one in McFadden to be deemed a revision. Even a simple and concise change should be deemed an improper revision if it makes “far reaching changes in the nature of our basic governmental plan.” Amador Valley Joint Union High Sch. Dist. v State Bd. of Equalization (1978) 22 C3d 208, 223, 149 CR 239. A constitutional change should be deemed a revision if it is either quantitatively or qualitatively substantial. Amador Valley Joint Union High Sch. Dist. v State Bd. of Equalization, supra.

Proposition 115 (also known as the Crime Victims’ Justice Reform Act), passed by the voters in 1990, is an example of a simple yet substantial change that exceeded the limited power to amend. It changed the California Constitution to expressly limit the protections it afforded to criminal defendants to those provided by the federal Constitution. Raven v Deukmejian (1990) 52 C3d 336, 276 CR 326. This amendment conflicted directly with the preexisting state Constitution, which stated: “Rights guaranteed by this Constitution are not dependant on those guaranteed by the United States Constitution.” Cal Const, art I, §24. The Supreme Court found that this change was an improper revision. 52 C3d at 355. By limiting the protections in our state Constitution to those in the federal Constitution, Proposition 115 “directly contradicts the well-established jurisprudential principle that, ‘The judiciary, from the very nature of its powers and means given it by the Constitution, must possess the right to construe the Constitution in the last resort.’” 52 C3d at 354, quoting Nogues v Douglass (1858) 7 C 65, 69. The court held that, although it did not constitute a quantitatively substantial change like the one in McFadden, Proposition 115 “substantially alters the preexisting constitutional scheme or framework heretofore extensively and repeatedly used by courts in interpreting and enforcing state constitutional protections.” Raven v Deukmejian, supra.

Of the seven ballot initiatives that have been challenged as improper revisions, the supreme court has upheld five as legitimate amendments. For example, Proposition 140, passed by the voters in 1990, limited the terms of state legislators and constitutional officers and limited legislators’ retirement benefits and administrative budgets. Legislature v Eu (1991) 54 C3d 492, 501, 286 CR 283. The court found that the new constitutional restrictions “may affect and alter the particular legislators and staff who participate in the legislative process, but the process itself should remain essentially as previously contemplated by our Constitution.” 54 C3d at 508. In contrast to the change in Raven, “Proposition 140 on its face does not affect either the structure or the foundational powers of the Legislature, which remains free to enact whatever laws it deems appropriate.” 54 C3d at 509.

Another example of a permissible constitutional amendment is one that defines “cruel or unusual punishment.” In 1972, the voters approved Proposition 17, which overruled an earlier California Supreme Court decision and stated that the death penalty “shall not be deemed to be, or to constitute, the infliction of cruel or unusual punishments.” People v Frierson (1979) 25 C3d 142, 173, 158 CR 281. Given the context of how courts interpret the term “cruel or unusual punishment,” this change was easily “within the lines” of the preexisting Constitution. Our courts recognize that determining whether or not a punishment is cruel or unusual “is not a static concept.” See People v Moon (2005) 37 C4th 1, 47, 32 CR3d 894. Instead, the courts have “established the propriety and affirmed the necessity of referring to ‘the evolving standards of decency that mark the progress of a maturing society’ to determine which punishments are so disproportionate as to be cruel and unusual.” People v Moon, supra, quoting Roper v Simmons (2005) 543 US 551, 568, 161 L Ed 2d 1, 125 S Ct 1183. Allowing the population to define what constitutes a “cruel or unusual” punishment is thus fully consistent with the preexisting constitutional structure. Proposition 17 also left fully intact the exclusive constitutional power of the judiciary to review death sentences “to assure that each sentence has been properly and legally imposed and to safeguard against arbitrary or disproportionate treatment.” People v Frierson (1979) 25 C3d 142, 187, 158 CR 281.

In the 130 years since California’s 1879 Constitution was adopted, the California Supreme Court has decided only nine cases involving the distinction between a revision and an amendment. This area of the law is, therefore, far from fully developed. Importantly, no case has ever raised the issue presented here: whether a simple majority of voters can strip a constitutionally-protected minority of fundamental civil rights. But as is demonstrated below, the guidelines that the court has set forth can only lead to the conclusion that Proposition 8 is an improper revision.

Proposition 8 Substantially Changes Our Constitution

The Right to Marry The express purpose of Proposition 8 is to take away a person’s right to marry someone of the same gender. The implicated right —- the right to marry the person of one’s choosing —- is protected by California’s Constitution as fundamental and inalienable.

Although it is not an expressly enumerated in our Constitution, the right to marry is embodied in the right to privacy and it is a component of the right to liberty protected by the due process clause. In re Marriage Cases (2008) 43 C4th 757, 810, 76 CR3d 683. The right to marry is so “deeply rooted in the history and tradition of our state and nation” that the supreme court held that it is “one of the basic, inalienable civil rights guaranteed to an individual by the California Constitution.” 43 C4th at 824, 782, citing Perez v Sharp (1948) 32 C2d 711, 198 P2d 17.

As with many other constitutional rights, the meaning and scope of the right to marry has evolved over time. This is because tradition alone “generally has not been viewed as a sufficient justification for perpetuating, without examination, the restriction or denial of a fundamental constitutional right.” In re Marriage Cases, 43 C4th at 820 (emphasis in original). For example, before 1948, California’s anti-miscegenation statute provided that “marriages of white persons with negroes, Mongolians, members of the Malay race, or mulattoes are illegal and void.” Former CC §60. In a landmark decision in 1948, the California Supreme Court held that “Since the right to marry is the right to join in marriage with the person of one's choice, a statute that prohibits an individual from marrying a member of a race other than his own restricts the scope of his choice and thereby restricts his right to marry.” Perez v Sharp (1948) 32 C2d 711, 715, 198 P2d 17.

Sixty years after its decision in Perez, the California Supreme Court extended the constitutional right to marry to same-sex couples. The court held that “the California Constitution properly must be interpreted to guarantee this basic civil right [to marry] to all individuals and couples, without regard to their sexual orientation.” In re Marriage Cases, 43 C4th at 782. In so holding, the court stressed that it was not creating a new right to same-sex marriage. Instead, the court recognized that same-sex couples are entitled to the existing fundamental right to marry that is protected by the inalienable right to privacy and due process in the California Constitution.

Equal Protection

Of course, Proposition 8 does not deny all Californians the right to marry. Instead, it targets gay men and lesbian women, a constitutionally-protected class of people who are entitled to heightened level of protection. 43 C4th at 784 (holding that sexual orientation is “a constitutionally suspect basis upon which to impose differential treatment”). By denying a fundamental and inalienable right to one class of citizens while preserving it for another, Proposition 8 completely eliminates the principle of equal protection on which our Constitution was built.

Adopted in 1849, a year before Congress recognized California as a state, our first Constitution embraced the principle that all citizens were entitled to equal protection of the law. For example, it guaranteed that “All men” have the same basic and inalienable rights. 1849 Cal Const, art I, §1. It also mandated that “All laws of a general nature shall have a uniform operation.” 1849 Cal Const, art I, §11. The meaning of this provision “is that the legislature shall not grant to any citizen or class of citizens privileges or immunities which upon the same terms shall not equally belong to all citizens.” Treadwell, The Constitution of the State of California 18 (1911) (citing, e.g., Brooks v Hyde (1869) 37 C 366; Ex parte Smith (1969) 38 C 702.

The foundational principle of equality has endured and our present Constitution is even more explicit in its protection. The Declaration of Rights, set forth in Article I of our present Constitution, expressly guarantees that all people have the right to equal protection of the laws. Cal Const art I, §7(a). Like Article I, §21 of the 1879 Constitution, the Declaration of Rights in our present Constitution mandates: “A citizen or class of citizens may not be granted privileges or immunities not granted on the same terms to all citizens.” Cal Const art I, § 7(b).

The guarantee that all people are entitled to equal protection of the laws is based on the basic understanding that individual liberties are best protected when all people must live by the same laws. As Justice Scalia has said, “Our salvation is the Equal Protection Clause, which requires the democratic majority to accept for themselves and their loved ones what they impose on you and me.” Cruzan v Director, Mo. Dep’t of Health (1990) 497 US 261, 300,111 L Ed 2d 224, 110 S Ct 2841 (Scalia, J., concurring).

At times when political majorities have attempted to take away rights from disfavored groups, our supreme court has enforced the equal protection clause. Enforcing the equal protection guarantee in the federal Constitution, the California Supreme Court overturned a state constitutional amendment that allowed property owners to refuse to sell or rent to a person on any basis, including race, religion, and national origin. Mulkey v Reitman (1966) 64 C2d 529, 50 CR 881. The court looked to the same equal protection guarantee when it overturned laws that prohibited Japanese citizens from owning land. Fujii v State (1952) 38 C2d 718, 242 P2d 617. Similarly, when the court overturned a law that prohibited women from working as bartenders, it did so based on the equal protection guarantees in our state and federal Constitutions. Sail’er Inn, Inc. v Kirby (1971) 5 C3d 1, 95 CR 329. These are just a few examples of the need throughout history for the court to step in and prevent a group of people from being oppressed by the majority.

Separation of Powers

In addition to obstructing the fundamental right to marry and eliminating the guarantee of equal protection, Proposition 8 also violates the separation of powers doctrine. The power of the people to pass laws and constitutional amendments through the initiative process is part of, and is limited by, the power of the legislature under the Constitution. Professional Eng’rs in Cal. Gov’t v Kempton (2007) 40 C4th 1016, 1045, 56 CR3d 814; Marine Forests Soc’y v California Coastal Comm’n (2005) 36 C4th 1, 35, 30 CR3d 30. Consequently, the separation of powers doctrine prohibits the electorate, in passing Proposition 8, from interfering with one of the powers occupied exclusively by the judicial branch. Marine Forests Soc’y, supra.

Among the protections provided by the separation of powers doctrine, “probably the most fundamental lies in the power of the courts . . . to preserve constitutional rights, whether of individual or minority, from obliteration by the majority.” Bixby v Pierno (1971) 4 C3d 130, 141, 93 CR 234. This is because of the fragile nature of the equal protection guarantee. After all, the only reason equality exists as something more than words on parchment is because our courts have the power to enforce it. If the legislative branch —- acting through the initiative power in passing Proposition 8 —- succeeded in wresting this power from the courts, it will have effectively abolished the equal protection guarantee itself. Consequently, the separation of powers clause prohibits the electorate from using the initiative power to strip the courts of its central power to enforce the constitutional guarantee of equal protection.

Proposition 8 Oversteps The Limited Power To Amend

To hold that Proposition 8 is valid, the supreme court must adopt a new and radically different constitutional rule: that a bare majority of voters have the power to strip away fundamental and inalienable constitutional rights from a disfavored minority. It also must hold that the legislative branch -— acting through the initiative process —- has the power to strip the courts of their exclusive right to protect minorities from having their rights obliterated by the majority. These changes represent seismic shifts in the foundational principles of our existing Constitution that cannot be enacted through a constitutional amendment.

Constitutional amendments, after all, can only make changes that are “within the lines of the original instrument as will effect an improvement, or better carry out the purpose for which it was framed.” Livermore v Waite (1894) 102 C 113, 118, 36 P 424. The court recognized in Livermore that our Constitution is “an instrument of a permanent and abiding nature.” Livermore v Waite, supra. By requiring that constitutional revisions undergo a rigorous and deliberative process, the people expressed their will that “the underlying principles upon which [the Constitution] rests, as well as the substantial entirety of the instrument, shall be of a like permanent and abiding nature.” Livermore v Waite, supra.

Conclusion

Proposition 8 far exceeds the boundaries of our current Constitution in the three important ways discussed above. First, it alienates the fundamental and inalienable constitutional rights to privacy and due process that comprise the right to marry. Second, it obliterates the foundational principle of equal protection and imposes a new rule that a bare majority can decide to deny fundamental civil rights to unpopular minorities. Third, it violates the separation of powers clause by stripping the judicial branch of its core constitutional power to prevent the majority from obliterating constitutional rights.

Rather than carrying out the purpose of our existing Constitution, as Livermore requires of an amendment, Proposition 8’s effect is to “substantially alter the purpose and to attain objectives clearly beyond the lines of the Constitution as now cast.” McFadden v Jordan (1948) 32 C2d 330, 350, 196 P2d 787. This is the type of constitutional change that must be decided in the rigorous and deliberative process required to revise the Constitution, rather than approved by simple majority in a political campaign for a ballot initiative.

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Not to take us off topic, but... (0.00 / 0)
I'm very impressed by that California Supreme Court webpage you linked us to, that they are actually willing to acknowledge that some cases are "high profile" cases and provide resources to the non-attorney public to understand them - most high courts like to pretend that all cases are of the same gravity and that political controversies don't exist.

I've expressed my frequent disgust with the way our Legislature and Executive branches function, but the California Supreme Court is probably our finest institution and one of the best State supreme courts in the country, in terms of transparency, access, and professionalism.

I guess that leads me to a conclusion that, no matter how they decide on Prop. 8, that it was a decision rendered in a professional and thoughtful manner.  I obviously agree with your analysis above (If I were on the bench, I'd call this a mere re-enactment of Romer, but we're in uncharted waters here... we'll see what happens).


Ron George (5.00 / 1)
The Cheif Justice, Ron George, has taken the lead to make California's courts more accessible to non-lawyers. His efforts range from small steps like making more case information available on the Court's website to more significant changes like the court's Self Help Center.  This is especially important in Small Claims cases and Unlawful Detainer actions where tenants are pitted against landlords who are represented by high-priced lawyers.

[ Parent ]
Hope the court will overturn... (0.00 / 0)
...not only to stifle the embryonic fascism inherent in Prop8, but also to tarnish the idea that voter-backed propositions are the "last word" in government.

We need to put some brakes on the State's runaway initiative process, and the legal rejection of Prop8 will be a good push for that effort.


Me too, but... (0.00 / 0)
I just don't see it getting overturned.  The three who voted against gay marriage, which led to Prop 8, aren't going to change their votes.  I went back through the archives here and remembered that Joyce Kennard was the loosest goose for flipping her vote, based on her line of questions at the trial.  I also would contend that she's the most likely to execute the knee-jerk reaction to "the people having the last word."  

So if Kennard joins Corrigan, Baxter, and Chin for four votes... the Chief Justice will side with them as well.  The Chief Justice is rarely in the minority on gigantic rulings like this.  

Very sad day on Tuesday.


[ Parent ]
Hail to the Chief (5.00 / 1)

Ron George will be on the side of overturning Prop 8, regardless of whether that's the majority or minority. I predict he writes the opinion. He's old enough (69) and wise enough to be thinking bigger picture and to think of his legacy.  Take, for example, his comments in a Los Angeles Times article:

But as he read the legal arguments, the 68-year-old moderate Republican was drawn by memory to a long ago trip he made with his European immigrant parents through the American South. There, the signs warning "No Negro" or "No colored," left "quite an indelible impression on me," he recalled in a wide-ranging interview Friday.

"I think," he concluded, "there are times when doing the right thing means not playing it safe."

Ron George is also a masterful politician who has the skills to convince people to join his side.

I think Kennard is the swing vote with George, Werdeger, and Moreno firmly on one side and Corrigan, Chin, and Baxter firmly on the other.



[ Parent ]
I was very surprised by Corrigan at the oral argument (0.00 / 0)
When Corrigan forcefully corrected Ken Starr and declared that (1) this situation is unprecedented and (2) there was no "swirl of uncertainty" about the legality of the marriages already performed (duh!), I got a small glimmer of hope, even though I know her voting record and have heard plenty of gossip from people who have known her.

(Side note:  wondering why Kirby Dick didn't include her in OUTRAGE.  Or has she never been outed by any journalists?)  


[ Parent ]
The robe in the closet (8.00 / 2)
You're right that Corrigan's questions give some glimmer of hope that she'll be on the right side.

I have no idea whether Corrigan is a lesbian or not.  I've seen the evidence supposedly proving that she is, and I guess there's at least enough there to raise questions.  I'm actually glad nobody investigated it during her confirmation because I believe whether or not she's a lesbian is irrelevant to her job.  

I disagree with you that, if she is lesbian, Corrigan should be outed.  I lean toward supporting the outing of hypocritical politicians.  But I think judges fall into a qualitatively different category.  Unlike a politician, who makes the law, a judge is supposed to blindly follow the law, regardless of her personal interest in the case.  For this reason, a judge who votes against her personal interest is arguably a more honest judge.  So I see no value in trying to prove that Corrigan is hypocritical if she is a lesbian and did not vote in favor of gay rights.


[ Parent ]
Good point. (0.00 / 0)
I wasn't really arguing that she should be outed--I thought she already had been outed, and was wondering whether she was considered as a subject for the film (which makes a strong case that the closet 1. has a corrosive effect on integrity in general and 2. leads to extra-hostile policies on LGBT issues, since the closet case feels the need to prove s/he's not queer).

Although I tend to see some of the harshness in her opinions as the closet speaking, I agree that we should certainly give judges the benefit of the doubt, and just as I would never vote to remove judges based on their decisions (only on ethics or competence issues), I wouldn't want judges' private lives made public.  Even if they're hypocritical jerks.  


[ Parent ]
Sorry (0.00 / 0)

I shouldn't have said that you were arguing that she should be outed.

I wouldn't call Corrigan's opinion on the marriage issue harsh. After all her opening line was:

In my view, Californians should allow our gay and lesbian neighbors to call
their unions marriages.

She then went on to hold that seperate but equal is good enough.  That's an argument that that I strongly disagree with, but not one that I would call harsh.  



[ Parent ]
i also think we have a shot with Corrigan (5.00 / 1)
Although I do think it's odd that she wasn't with us on the original marriage question.

I predict a WIN for us with Corrigan, George, Moreno and Werdegar striking down Prop 8.

##########################

The Mad Professah Lectures
http://www.madprofessah.com


[ Parent ]
NCLRights.org will also be texting the decision. (0.00 / 0)
Another option if you don't want to sign up through CREDO:  NCLR, lead counsel in the case, will be texting the decision.  You can sign up to get a text at http://www.nclrights.org .  


some think we're going to get a split decision (0.00 / 0)
The experts that KQED's "California Report" interviewed think the court's going to refuse to overturn Prop 8, but will let the gay marriages that happened between the original court decision and election day to stand.  The oral arguments suggest that at least one judge who ruled in favor of gay marriage before, and maybe two, aren't willing to overturn "the will of the people".

We'll see.


That would be a loss, not a split. (5.00 / 1)
The marriages were valid when performed. Ken Starr is the only person I've heard who has suggested that they would retroactively become invalid.  One justice during oral argument grilled Starr on his nonsensical take on retroactivity (paraphrasing) "if the people in this state cannot take this court's word on what is legal, whom should they ask?"  The validity of those 18,000 marriages (mine included!) is a given, IMO.  

Who were these experts on KQED?  They are echoing the same superficial analysis that was all over the newspapers on March 6th.  

The law is on our side, and the political costs of doing the right and lawful thing have gone down dramatically in just the past few weeks.  

8 will be overturned, or if the court wants to split the baby, they'll say that the legislature has to find another way for all couples to have the same gov't recognition, including the same name for the gov't license.  (They were very clear last year that the name is part of gov't recognition and must be equal.)  


[ Parent ]
Recognition of previous marriages should not be taken for granted. (4.00 / 2)
Prop 8 does not say that same-sex marriages don't exist; it says that they may not be recognized as valid by the State of California.  There is nothing in its wording that limits this to future marriages; it categorically provides that "only" marriage between a man and a woman "is valid or recognized" in this state.   On its face, this applies to all same-sex marriages, wherever or whenever performed.

The court should overturn Prop 8 on the grounds that eliminating a fundamental right (which the court previously declared marriage to be) is a revision, not an amendment, of the constitution.  But if it upholds Prop 8, it can't allow the state to continue recognizing same-sex marriages as valid without changing the plain meaning and intent of Prop 8.

Same-sex marriages performed before Prop 8 would not cease to exist; they would still be eligible for recognition by other states or entities that recognize such marriages.  But they would no longer be recognized by California.


[ Parent ]
So which... (5.00 / 1)
newspaper/blog on Tuesday morning will rush to get out the first story on the decision, and based on a rumor, publish the WRONG verdict?  :-)

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