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HRC Demands Exclusive Inclusiveness

by: akogun

Wed Oct 24, 2007 at 09:39:51 AM PDT


UPDATE: Gospel singer says he is not anti-gay

My Comments are at the bottom of the Diary.

I don't see anything about this on The Human Rights Campaign's website, but if the report of HRC' "Ultimatum" to Senator Barack Obama is true, then it is my considered opinion that all well-meaning Democrats ought to be outraged at the apparent incongruity of an organization devoted to the advocacy of "inclusiveness" demanding that the same consideration be not extended to another person or entity with which it disagrees.

akogun :: HRC Demands Exclusive Inclusiveness
According to HRC, the very existence of the organization is dedicated to ".....HRC envisions an America where GLBT people are ensured of their basic equal rights...."

That HRC is demanding that Senator Obama cancels his scheduled campaign appearance with an ostensibly unpalatable character in order to pacify an organization that many others regard as equally unpalatable is, again in my opinion, the height of hypocrisy. Does HRC not believe that other people have equally pressing needs and opinions, and that those needs and opinions are also "Rights" worth protecting? Is HRC stating that when someone else's rights collide with their members' then only their members' rights deserve to be protected? Does one not have a right to hold opinions and beliefs, however lunatic and extreme those opinions might be? Isn't there a constitutional right for a stupid person? Or does stupidity make one less entitled to rights worthy of protection?

Let it be said that the Democratic Party is deemed (rightly so) to be the party of inclusiveness. We like to tout the fact that we have a bigger tent and accommodate more shades of characters than the other major party. We do not strive to create outcasts or discriminate against individuals or entities based on their "differences".

HRC cannot be advancing the interests of one segment of the society, asking that they be treated as the equal part of the society and at the same time be DEMANDING that the same rights and platform they seek for their constituents be denied others. That is reversed discrimination, and it not does not positively help advance HRC's causes.

The Democratic Party needs the maximum support and inclusiveness it can get from every part of the society. Yes, this position opens up the possibility that we will have amongst us a number of people, beliefs and opinions with which a large part of "Big Tent" will disgree, and with which they will be uncomfortable. But, that is what inclusiveness is all about. The diversity of opinions and beliefs creates a fertile ground for us to understand our differences and work towards reconciling them. The other major has made the art of pitting several segments of the society against one another its exlusive purview. I say let them continue to do so. We do not need to emulate such discrimination and divisiveness. Much as it may distress many within the Democratic Party, the evangelicals in this country are viable, strong and, yes, Americans. They vote, too, and they have voices that also need to be heard.

We cannot and should not seek to silence people with whom we disagree. If HRC truly believes in equal rights for ALL (and not just for their GLBT constituents), then it must be willing to work with others to advance that cause, rather than seeking to ostracize people it deems antagonistic to its cause. I suggest that, rather than DEMANDING that our candidates (nay our party) not work with others it doesn't like, HRC can do better and find more sympathetic ears by actively championing the expansive inclusivness that having those people within the tent presents.

Politics is about elections. Elections is a numbers game. Sinister as that might sound, it is a fact. We cannot continue to cede the religious grounds to the other party - there are too many of us in the Democratic Party who are truly religious and would like to have our positions and concerns listened to. I am a Democrat because I believe that it is the better of the two major parties when it comes to diversity of beliefs and opinions. HRC is not doing us any favor by striving to stiffle that diversity - it is what makes us better than the "other side".

UPDATED COMMENTARY:

On discrimination:
"I don't believe that even from a religious point of view that Jesus ever discriminated toward anyone, nor do I. Most of the things that were said were totally out of context and then other things weren't true."

Does he mean that this is all a manufactured outrage? I hope someone gets back with documented facts that debunks this assertion.

On what he's doing hanging with Obama:
"My only concern is to be in place with Sen. Obama in unity and bring all the factors together for the sake of change.....That's my only thing. Of course some agents have twisted it as though he [Obama] were embracing a racist or a Nazi, and that is anything but true."

Hmmmm...... maybe the facts will show otherwise.

A believer?:
"'I believe in his stance. I believe in his platform and his agenda. So when they asked me if I would be a part of it, there was no problem,' said McClurkin, who has performed at both parties' conventions and identifies himself as a Democrat. 'We don't have to agree on everything, but we do have to agree on the main thing: that there needs to be change and I believe he is the candidate to bring it.'"

Why so anti-gay?:
.....his ministry is open to those who say they no longer want to live as a gay person. What he doesn't do, he says, is crusade against homosexuality."

On "curing homosexuality":
"There's never been a statement made by me about curing homosexuality. People are using that in order to incite anger and to twist my whole platform on it. There's no crusade for curing it or to convert everyone. This is just for those who come to me and ask for change."

Will this pacify HRC and its supporters? What? Not even if we add the fact that there is now an openly-gay Minister on the same platform, providing a counter-balance to the damage that McClurkin (regardless of his protestation to the contrary) may be doing to the GLBT community?

For the sake of sanity and objectivity, I hope it does.

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Heartily disagree. (6.50 / 2)
Why should bigotry be tolerated? It's important to speak out against hate.

Obama should not have invited McClurkin to tour with him. Now that he has made that mistake, he needs to at least disassociate himself from McClurkin.


is this dissociative enough? (2.00 / 1)
"I strongly believe that African Americans and the [lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgendered (LGBT)] community must stand together in the fight for equal rights. And so I strongly disagree with Reverend McClurkin's views and will continue to fight for these rights as president of the United States to ensure that America is a country that spreads tolerance instead of division."

I also don't consider it a mistake to include people with diverse beliefs in a dialogue. Otherwise, all we'll be having is monologue, preaching to the choir, so to speaking.

What I find diconcerting is that people who are asking for inclusion in the mainstream are also advocating exclusion of people with whom they disagree. That's duplicitous.


[ Parent ]
No, it's not. (6.50 / 2)
He's continuing to give the bigot a platform.

[ Parent ]
It's an issue of civil rights, not of religious freedoms (7.40 / 5)
If churches want to handle sexuality in a backwards fashion, so be it.  But McClurkin's lectures go not to just some issue that is negotiable, but to the very existence of the LGBT community. And when Sen. Obama gets on a stage with him, he, at least tacitly, endorses the message.

What some call inclusion, I call my civil rights. Do you seriously believe that Sen. Obama would stand there with somebody who said he was "fighting the curse of Judaism." Why should my community be any different? Why do we need to settle for less?

I think?


[ Parent ]
I am not asking us (0.00 / 0)
to stand for less. I am actually asking us to stand for more by recognizing that there are people who will not share our beliefs and with whom we will diametrically opposed. BUT, they are entitled to their beliefs. I will equally defend the constitutional rights of anyone regardless of race, religious beliefs, sexual orientation or creed, much as I would defend MY own entitlement to those same rights.

By showing that we are capable of co-mingling with people with whom we share no common beliefs, we demostrate that we deserve to expect the same acceptance from everyone else. Anything to the contrary makes it hard to differentiate us from the institutionalized opposition we are trying to overcome.


[ Parent ]
That's a crock (7.50 / 6)
Nobody said that this guy wasn't entitled to his (bigoted) beliefs, or tried to stifle his speech.  All they said was that it was inappropriate for Barack Obama to tour with him.

Criticism is not anti-free speech.  Criticism is at the heart of free speech.  Meekly accepting bigotry is condoning it, not tolerating it.


[ Parent ]
I cannot believe that any Democrat could post (7.00 / 3)
something with this statement

Elections is a numbers game. Sinister as that might sound, it is a fact. We cannot continue to cede the religious grounds to the other party - there are too many of us in the Democratic Party who are truly religious and would like to have our positions and concerns listened to.

We are not ceding anything but bigotry. I am quite happy to have the Republicans have the bigots, they are a shrinking breed, unless we validate their views. 

I like Obama(he was my #2) but this was a huge mistake that has been handled very badly. 


You call it "bigotry" (2.00 / 1)
they call it something else. Difference of perception, opinion and belief, see?

We either have a big tent and be willing to accommodate more diversity, or we don't have a big tent and we stop pretending and start ostracizing certain segments of the society we find unacceptable. Who's to say that the GLBT will be left standing in the Democratic tent if we start doing that?


[ Parent ]
Something else? (7.40 / 5)
I call it the Holocaust, Ahmedinijad calls it nothing. See, difference of perception? Why doesn't Bush just smile and sit in a big tent with him?

I cannot be in a big tent with those who believe that I should not exist. I do not accept people who belittle my Judaism, and  I will not expect anything less for another facet of my identity.

I think?


[ Parent ]
I do not know why Bush does whatever he does (0.00 / 0)
But I can tell you that you are co-existing in a very large country that contains a sizeable number of holocaust deniers. It is still not a crime in this country and it is still considered protected speech. See?

If you find it difficult to co-habit in our virtual big tent with people you despise, then you will most likely end up in a paryof one.


[ Parent ]
Where is the line? (7.40 / 5)
So, anti-gay bigotry is A-OK.  Excellent.

Anti-black?

Anti-latino?

Where is the line?


[ Parent ]
Honestly? (0.00 / 0)
I don't know. I am not even sure that there is a line. All I know is that we should have the capacity to talk to people, regardless of how despicable we find them or their position.

[ Parent ]
So... (7.25 / 4)
We should be featuring James Dobson and David Duke at Dem rallies?

Hate is just not acceptable.

I think?


[ Parent ]
You never know (0.00 / 0)
Dobson and co may have a re-awakening (or a mid-life crisis or a command from god him/her-self) and start working to get Democrats elected.

If Dobson gets that conversion, I will gladly welcome him to the Democratic Party. I may not invite him to dinner, but in politics, there have been stranger bed-fellows than a Dobson-Democrat mix-up.

The guy who is the object of our outrage today is ACTIVELY working to get Democrats elected. In case you are wondering if it's a zero-sum game for me, no it's not. But, it is a numbers game. Much more than that, it is a fairness (goode-for-the-goose-etc) thing for me. Big tent, huge potentials for differences.


[ Parent ]
I would not be a part of a Dobson Democratic Party (8.00 / 2)
I would either have to change to a different party or ditch the country. Sorry, some beliefs are too central to my being to sell out.

I think?

[ Parent ]
Not really (8.00 / 2)
He's doing it for his own publicity. The dude is a huge George W. Bush supporter and performed at the RNC convention in 2004 to support Bush. That's hardly working to support the Democratic Party.

I think?

[ Parent ]
Oh, *talk* to people... (7.25 / 4)
because what you seemed to be complaining about was the Human Rights Campaign raising a fuss about a Democratic political candidate touring with someone, and therefore implicitly endorsing them, when that person has taken the public position that gay people are basically bad people.

I agree that we should be able to *talk* to anybody.  But that doesn't mean that we should try to *pander* to certain people.

See, the "Democrat as team jersey" model of the "big tent" makes being a Democrat meaningless.  If you don't stand for something, what does it matter what team you're on?


[ Parent ]
I don't think it's pandering (0.00 / 0)
I think it's a calculated risk on the part of Obama. Should he have taken that risk? I happen to think yes, because if he hadn't, then it would have been a repudiation of his claim that he has the ability to bring people together. If he can bring everyone working towards a Democratic majority and elctoral success together, it would be unwise of him to not do so.

The Mc-whatever guy is working on behalf of the Democratic Party, advancing whichever part of the cause he can. Since not everyone agrees 100% with all the "causes" advanced by the competing interests withiin the Democratic Party, the sum of the total will invariably be larger than a negative part of the total.


[ Parent ]
And, I stand for something (0.00 / 0)
that "something" is that my rights do not trump your rights, but they are nevertheless not subordinate to your rights either. Everyone has a right worth protecting, even those we don't like.

[ Parent ]
What rights would this bigot lose, exactly? (8.00 / 2)
Because I don't recall anything about the right to a tacit endorsement of one's views by a candidate, or a right not to be criticized for bigotry (or not-bigotry, for that matter).

You're conflating criticism with censorship.  It's a common error, but one that you should rectify.


[ Parent ]
they'd lose the right of dominance (8.00 / 2)
over inferiors.

in a nutshell, the fear of losing that dominance is what drives political conservatism.

has no business in the democratic party, IMO.


[ Parent ]
Actually, (0.00 / 0)
HRC is issuing an ultimatum to Obama to cancel his appearance with this individual because of what he beliefs. That is NOT criticism.

My raising the incongruous dichotomy of advocating acceptance of the GLBT by the general populace and extending equal rights to all, while at the same time that, because someone does not agree with what we stand for, that person should NOT be accepted by our Party (which is larger than just the constituents HRC represents) - this is called criticism.

We want to be accepted by all, but we want to pick and choose whom we accept. The whole point of the GLBT movement is to attain equal treatment before the law. We jeopardize that aspiration by showing that we are not willing to accept others, however odious their belief systems might appear to us.


[ Parent ]
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