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$5.05 for the Future

by: Brian Leubitz

Mon Mar 07, 2011 at 11:06:55 AM PST


Yesterday I mentioned that we have reached a new nearly 40 year low of percentage of personal income spent on government services.  It now stands at $5.05 per $100 of personal income, the lowest since the gubernatorial days of Ronald Reagan.  There are very real effects of that:

Over the past two years, California, Georgia, Nevada, Ohio, Utah and Wisconsin have loosened legal restrictions on class size. And Idaho and Texas are debating whether to fit more students in classrooms.

Los Angeles has increased the average size of its ninth-grade English and math classes to 34 from 20. Eleventh- and 12th-grade classes in those two subjects have risen, on average, to 43 students.(NY Times)

I've never taught in a traditional school setting, but having worked with teenagers in the past, I can assure you that you can not teach a math class effectively to either 34 or 43 teenagers.

At some point, we have to take this information in and understand what the anti-government forces have done to our once proud public school system, and what they are doing to a social safety net that is stretched so thin that the wholes are visible from space.  We all lose when one student fails because we couldn't get them the resources they needed to succeed.  We all fail as our students fall through the cracks.

UPDATE: I need to point out that part of the reason the number has decreased is that Brown's budget calls for the shifting of some services from the state to local governments. This figure only covers the state's portion.
Brian Leubitz :: $5.05 for the Future
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$5.05 for the Future | 36 comments
I agree with the class size problem (0.00 / 0)
Now if only the teachers agreed to take a 20% cut in their total compensation, we could hire 20% more teachers and save public education.  Is it about the children, and not about the money, right?
If the teachers really cared about their kids (5.00 / 1)
They would sleep in their cars overnight, saving the need for rent, allowing them to work for 20% less.

Fry, don't be a hero! It's not covered by our health plan!
[ Parent ]
That (0.00 / 0)
That could be potentially lethal in some areas, Depending on what the climate is like or where the teachers are employed at.
[ Parent ]
Thus saving the state money on those luxurious (5.00 / 1)
dental plans; the teachers die off before they need any expensive work this way.

Fry, don't be a hero! It's not covered by our health plan!
[ Parent ]
PS: I think your snark detector needs adjusting :-) (0.00 / 0)


Fry, don't be a hero! It's not covered by our health plan!
[ Parent ]
If the teachers really cared (5.00 / 1)
They would live in their cars and only eat McDonald's Double Cheeseburgers, allowing them to reduce their pay  by 40% and ensuring that they never lived long enough to collect a pension.

OC Progressive is Gus Ayer, former Fountain Valley Council member.  
I volunteer You to try this 1st (0.00 / 0)
Especially in areas where It gets really hot or really cold, Think before You type something like this next time, These are people You're trying to demonize.
[ Parent ]
I believe OCProgressive was being sarcastic n/t (0.00 / 0)


I think?
[ Parent ]
Yes, sarcasm intended (0.00 / 0)
I thought is would be very clear that I was channeling the Tea Party logic.

OC Progressive is Gus Ayer, former Fountain Valley Council member.  
[ Parent ]
It's hard to tell online (0.00 / 0)
But then some things go right past Me, As they always have.
[ Parent ]
Looking at the budget (0.00 / 0)
I looked at Brown's budget and I asked a few teacher friends about it and they couldn't give me answers so here it goes:

total budget spends approx $10K per kid
61% goes to Classroom instruction so ~6K
the other 39% goes to admin and infrastructure.

The HIGHEST teacher salary I've seen is 86K (~80K). The Average is around 50K (yes, I'm excluding the reported 100K+ OC Drama teacher)

So if a class size is optimally 20 students that means each class gets $120K (I'm rounding here)  for instruction. Subtract the highest salary you get $40K dedicated to instruction.  With bigger class rooms like 40 you get non-teacher instruction costs per room up to 160K.

My question is where is the difference going to? Because according to the budget breakdowns we could be paying teachers more with what we have (and I support much higher teacher salaries). Maybe I missed something. I think you guys already have the brown budget numbers and tese same breakdowns but I'll post links if you need them.

Bingo - we have a winner!! (5.00 / 1)

Don't you think voters would be more apt to vote for taxes if they had not been lied to time and time again about where the money is actually going?

This is exactly why we should not just hand over more money to k-12 education and the teacher's union when they run their 60 million dollar scare campaign full of empty play grounds and closed schools.  Nobody seems to have any idea where the money is going, it just seems to fall into a black hole of bueacracy and administrators.

In case you are wondering where it goes, it is going to build schools for the declining number or students and to provide jobs for the benevolent bearded administrators that think they know what is best for our children and how to better spend our tax money with little to no accountability.

http://blogs.investors.com/cap...

[ Parent ]
Ditto Diego! (0.00 / 0)
I can't wait until it's under $5.  More money in peoples pockets so they may seek the services that suit their needs at their discretion.

Unless it's building highways or other infrastructure I don't want the state doing it.  Local municipalities should control their own destinies on education and as much else as possible.  

Hi. I'm Charles.  I worked my way from homelessness to a business owner.  Be what you have it in you to be!

[ Parent ]
Have you checked out the cost of private schools lately? (0.00 / 0)
Please do. Then see if what you're paying toward public schools would pay for them. Better yet, see if the clerks at your local grocery store could afford to pay for them out of their tax share. Do the math.

And don't say you don't have kids in school. I don't either. But whether or not we have an educated workforce has a huge impact on the economy. As long as I live in this state, that makes a difference to me. So, even though my son got his master's about 15 years ago, I still care about public education.

[ Parent ]
As more private schools opened the costs would decrease (0.00 / 0)
Also Charter schools are a great middle ground.  I'm as "progressive" as can be regarding education.  i want progress away from our current crappy system.  no matter how much $ you throw at the current system it will still be full of kids who don't have the structure at home to encourage them to be successful.  No program you can legislate will change this truth.  The current system of compulsory attendance of a failing public school system only exacerbates the problem.

Hi. I'm Charles.  I worked my way from homelessness to a business owner.  Be what you have it in you to be!
[ Parent ]
How exactly would creating more private schools (0.00 / 0)
bring the cost down?

They cost what they cost, and the factors that change what they cost are:
- location/rent.

There are some kick-ass and, by urban standards, affordable, private schools in Mendocino County, for example, if you don't mind the commute or if you don't mind packing your kids off. Their land was cheap and is paid for, their staff can live in relatively low rent and thus for lower salaries.

- class size
10 kids, 20 kids, 40 kids, ... all those options are available in private schools depending on price point.

- curriculum
IB and Montessori schools are expensive, others less so

In general, private schools can have some expenses that are lower because:
- no obligation to accept special ed, disruptive, or problem kids
- parents are usually obligated to put in a certain number of volunteer hours
- fewer state rules requiring that money be spent in certain ways
- teaching credential not required (sometimes for bad, sometimes for good)
- religious schools benefit from vows of charity and from staff with no dependents.

On the other hand, there are many private schools that spend far in excess of what public schools spend. In LA, a $20k a year tuition is just moderate if you're looking at elite schools.

There's no economy of scale in education.  

Fry, don't be a hero! It's not covered by our health plan!

[ Parent ]
We have a lovely charter school in our area (0.00 / 0)
 It uses Waldorf methods and it has dedicated parents and happy kids. The kids seem to graduate and go on to be successful in high school and I think they will grow up to be useful citizens.

I am glad to have this school in our community offering an alternative approach to the traditional curriculum. In addition to academics, Waldorf focuses on a holistic set of skills, like teaching knitting to 2nd graders. Knitting is great for fine motor skills, eye-hand coordination, history, patterns, and, you might be surprised to consider, a significant bit of math foundation.

By the state reckoning, if you compare the test scores of that school to schools with the same socioeconomic rank, it gets a 1 (where 1 is the worst score you can get out of 10.)

No knitting skills are tested on the bubble tests.

Should this school be closed? Why or why not?

Fry, don't be a hero! It's not covered by our health plan!

[ Parent ]
Thanks for the link (0.00 / 0)
That was an interesting report. I do wonder what they counted as administrative. That could be anybody who doesn't teach--including librarians, guidance counselors, janitors, and cafeteria workers. I would agree that adding administrators is not a good idea. But I wouldn't include needed support staff in a blanket cutback. As in carpentry, it's important to measure twice and cut once--rather than the reverse.  
[ Parent ]
Why admin rewarded over teachers? (0.00 / 0)
that was an intersting link. Amazing that administrators are getting the lion share. Assuming that all these gains come from unions lobbying why are administrators being rewarded better than teachers? Is the union staff made of administrators over teachers? Is it some budget loophole where teacher pay is locked by administrators aren't? Anyone know why the teachers don't get a greater say?  

I'll try to read the pdf to see if there is anything.

[ Parent ]
Administrators are generally not in the union (0.00 / 0)
They're the people who negotiate with the union, actually.

Fry, don't be a hero! It's not covered by our health plan!
[ Parent ]
Bureaucrats and administrators aren't in (5.00 / 1)
the teacher's union, you know. :-)

Usually a school district has three groups of employees:

- Certificated, which includes teachers, and are in the teacher's union
- Classified, which would be janitors and aides and secretaries, with their own separate union
- Admin confidential, which are the Principal, Superintendent, Business manager, Payroll, etc., and are non-union.

Fry, don't be a hero! It's not covered by our health plan!

[ Parent ]
Ah, Thx (0.00 / 0)
AH, thanks. So the non-unioned administrators are more expensive because they have less job security? I know thats how it works with contractors.
[ Parent ]
To be an administrator like a (0.00 / 0)
principal, dean, superintendent requires an additional credential, significant additional experience, and significant responsibility that is different from (not necessarily harder than) what a teacher has.

In general they do problem solving, where the nature of the problem varies constantly over the year, and they're the person who has to coordinate everyone. It's a different skillset, meaning that sometimes a great teacher is not a good administrator and sometimes a great administrator is not a great teacher.

They have to know the education code inside and out. They have to understand all the budget buckets and what money can be used for what. They have to ensure that all the kids get an appropriate education and that every staff member is following the law. They are in charge of discipline of problem students and have to be constantly watching the whole organization for weaknesses.

The other admin confidential types do not need a credential, but there is a lot of specialized training, and you need someone sharp, ethical, and someone who is good at cutting through the trees to make sure that everything that is done is done for the benefit of students. Someone with all the skills to be a great business manager, for example, would be a $200k or more employee in private business in the city. And these people do get 'poached' :-) and wooed by others, leaving the district to find and train someone else. Turnover can have a high and somewhat hidden cost.

There is also a fair amount of paperwork in the school to make the nice people in Sacramento confident that all the laws are being followed, and to provide people like you and I with all the information that is supposed to be public record. Someone has to do it.

Fry, don't be a hero! It's not covered by our health plan!

[ Parent ]
I have a budget right in front of me (5.00 / 2)
and if you want to know the answers, this is a great month to go to your school board meeting. Second interim budget report is due March 15.

So, first, salary is only part of the cost of the teacher; as in any business, the school has to pay employer taxes and workman's comp, and traditionally, schools make a contribution to health care and pension plans in addition. For highly paid workers in IT we generally figure that an employee costs 33% more than salary; for lower paid workers like teachers and teachers' aides, it tends to end up at more like 40% or 50%, depending upon the individual district's setup.

So next, in addition to classroom teachers, there are quite a lot of staff members who work with kids but don't have a regular class. Depending upon the school, this can include language specialists, reading specialists, speech therapists, counselors, special ed, librarians, and a school nurse. At our school, all of these positions are part time and many are paid in accounts labeled as services that don't look like staff members, even though they may be at the school regularly and well known to the kids.

If your school still has art or music or pe, often those are separate teachers with no permanently assigned kids.

Then you have aides and playground supervision. The amount you'll need will vary if you have kids with special needs.

There's a secretary to answer the phone, and there are sometimes people who order supplies and do other admin-like tasks so teachers don't have to.

The Principal and other administrators in our school all know all the kids and work with kids every day. In addition, they problem solve for the teachers, meet with parents, observe teachers, evaluate teachers, look for money under the cushions, and plan special events. Good administrators allow the teachers to focus on teaching.

In most schools, special ed funds do not cover the costs of special ed students. Transportation and cafeteria also usually encroach on the district's general fund.

If a school has computers, there's the IT people. Schools have maintenance staff and they have utility bills. There is some professional development, there's supplies, there's the auditor to ensure your money is well spent, and the business manager to track the budget and the people who write the checks. There's the lawyer who gets called for advice now and then.

I don't know if money is spent wisely in your district or not. If you're willing to put in the time, you can probably get a pretty good feel by attending school board meetings and looking around. It takes some time, though, to get used to all the codes and to figuring out where all the pieces are.

Fry, don't be a hero! It's not covered by our health plan!

[ Parent ]
That's good info. (0.00 / 0)
So I guess the classroom instruction costs s probably where they put the insurance (both health and accident), I figured equipment & books went there.  I'm curious to see what my school board puts out and would like to see it.

[ Parent ]
Larger class sizes are in high schools where (5.00 / 1)
it turns out, there are higher costs per student. The textbooks are more, the science equipment and PE equipment has to be real, there is a need for a true computer lab, etc. There are more discipline problems and there is a need for counseling assistance to get the kids access to college.

I've been looking. I'm not finding any big magic pools of money accumulating anywhere.

Fry, don't be a hero! It's not covered by our health plan!

[ Parent ]
I've looked at my local district budget and state budget (0.00 / 0)
Less than 3% of expenses for the school district go to administrators' salaries and benefits. They have consistently reduced the number of top administrators and administrative staff over the last several years.

The calculation that anti-education forces consistently make to show that there is a tremendous amount of waste in school systems is deliberately deceptive and ignores any real discussion of school funding and where the money goes.

I continue to think that there might be savings to be realized in the 17% (if I remember correctly) of California's education budget that goes to special education.  

OC Progressive is Gus Ayer, former Fountain Valley Council member.  

My understanding is the the feds are supposed to (0.00 / 0)
fund special education up to 40% but in the last two years at least that figure didn't even hit 25%. So we're already profoundly underfunded. And the costs of special education, the numbers of children who (rightfully so!) keep qualifying for testing/intervention is going up--esp. as we gain a better and better understanding of how people learn and what it looks like when they are struggling vs. "not trying". We are also experiencing a shortage of special ed teachers, so they command more money when hired.

Why did you think there was savings to be had in that 17%?

[ Parent ]
We are now back to where do you want to cut? (0.00 / 0)
It looks more likely than ever that the whining Republicans will not give in on the special election and JB will be soon releasing an all cuts budget, which the Democrats will not approve.

On Monday, Brown said that if his tax plan fails, "We'll either get an all-cuts budget or government will be paralyzed, and they'll just sit there like they have in years past until they run out of cash."

http://www.sacbee.com/2011/03/...

The end is near.  Very near.

JB (0.00 / 0)
That might give JB the chance to do what he needs to do - kill everyone's sacred cows.
[ Parent ]
No one wants stupid Cap (0.00 / 0)
Except stupid Republicans.
[ Parent ]
Stupid Cap? (0.00 / 0)
He also wants a stupid cap?  The Democrats will never go for that.
[ Parent ]
Who is lucky to pay only $5.05 (5.00 / 1)
Wow - Am I getting ripped off here.

This figure is well over $18 for me. I'm lower middle class but pay an average of 9% State Sales Tax and about 9% in Personal Income Tax with nothing left over to save.   That is like $18 for every $100 of personal income.  And that doesn't count anything goes to Federal Gov't.

Who in California is only paying $5.05?  

You don't pay income tax on your first dollar (0.00 / 0)
Most people in California pay less than $1,000 in income tax.

Fry, don't be a hero! It's not covered by our health plan!
[ Parent ]
You don't pay income tax on your first dollar (0.00 / 0)
Most people in California pay less than $1,000 in income tax.

Fry, don't be a hero! It's not covered by our health plan!
[ Parent ]
Serious? (0.00 / 0)
I pay a lot more than that. Any idea what the percentage is that pays less than $1000? where'd you get the stat I'd like to look at it

[ Parent ]
$5.05 for the Future | 36 comments
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