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No Majority Vote Measures?

by: Brian Leubitz

Thu Mar 03, 2011 at 08:32:22 AM PST


Here's the thing: The Republicans understand that there have to be some additional revenues.  They know that even they couldn't come up with the full $25 Billion in cuts in any way that could possibly help them politically. But, on the other side, they are terrified of their own base.

This is where it gets interesting.  Sen. Bob Dutton, the Republican Leader in the Senate asked the Legislative Counsel if there is any way for the Democrats to put something on the ballot on their own, sans the 2/3 majority.  Now, Dutton would probably tell you out in public that this is just to stop the tax hikes or something like that.  But, you have to think that Dutton was secretly hoping that the Democrats could do the dirty work while the Republicans could maintain their ideological purity by never voting for anything that possibly resembles an increase in taxes.

Speaker Perez, for his part, doesn't seem to be taking the bait, and has cast that aside right from the get-go:

Assembly Speaker John A. Pérez said Wednesday that he has no intention of sidestepping Republicans by trying to place a tax-extension measure on the June ballot by a simple majority vote of the Legislature.

Pérez downplayed a legislative counsel's opinion, sought by Senate Republican leader Bob Dutton, that indicated such a measure could be placed before voters without the support of GOP lawmakers, under narrow circumstances.

"No," Pérez said flatly when asked if he is entertaining such a plan for the tax measure proposed by Gov. Jerry Brown to raise $11 billion for the fiscal year that ends June 30, 2012.

"There is not a single legal analysis that I think holds any water that says we could legitimately put this question before voters on a simple majority vote," Pérez told the Sacramento Press Club. (SacBee)

I'll admit, I'm a bit split on this move.  From a practical standpoint, I'm a bit skeptical that the Democrats will, in fact, be able to lure enough GOP votes.  Keeping open the majority vote measure as a way to whip some GOP votes into making some sort of deal seems to make some sense.

But, guessing at the Speaker's logic here, in order to pass this thing at the ballot, you are probably going to need at least nominal GOP support.  If you have them running around saying how awful this package is, it could create a pretty dicey situation for the actual election.

At any rate, despite the Speaker's protests, I would still not count out the concept of a majority vote measure quite yet.  

Brian Leubitz :: No Majority Vote Measures?
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It sounded (0.00 / 0)
Like a Trap to Me and I'm glad Speaker Perez didn't fall for this thing, As It sounds too good to be true, Cause It smelled like a Trap, Therefore It was a trap.

More taxes? (1.33 / 3)
You think that Californians don't pay enough taxes?  How much is enough then?

There should not be new taxes on the ballot, there needs to be more cuts including to the already too high tax rates paid but the working people.

CA has a predicted deficit of more than $27MMM over the next 18 months.

The citizens of CA have voted down numerous attempts at tax increases over the last 2 elections, starting with the defeat of prop 1A in 2008, which will shorten the term of the taxes imposed in 2009 to deal with the budget deficit. Californians also voted down the $18 per year state tax on vehicles that would have given free access to state parks.

Gov Brown has said he will not raise any taxes unless the people vote for them.

California's 2011 Business Tax Climate Ranks 49th.

California's State/Local Tax Burden Above National Average
Estimated at 10.5% of income, California's state/local tax burden percentage stands at 6th highest nationally, above the national average of 9.7%. Californians pay $5,028 per capita in state and local taxes.

California's Corporate Income Tax Rate is the Highest in the West

California's Top Individual Income Tax Rate Is 4th Highest in the Nation.

California's tax rate of 9.55% on individuals making more than 47K per year is the highest in the nation.

California's unemployment rate is over 12.4%

Average ($2839) amount paid for property taxes ranks 8th highest, behind only MA, NH, NJ, NY, RI, WI and VT.

California and Illinois have the lowest state credit rating at A1, fifth-highest, from Moody's Investors Service.

So a 'junk' status credit rating + high taxes + high unemployment + high deficits = The Republicans should put more taxes to the people?

Based on the tax rates, the Republicans have already compromised on taxes.

What is your solution to the budget problem? Raise taxes?  Seriously, how much is enough?


if you're so sure that we're overtaxed (0.00 / 0)
and the people so unwilling to vote for higher taxes, then why are you afraid of it going to the people for a vote?

[ Parent ]
Fear nothing (0.00 / 0)
I am not afraid of the people voting.  I am afraid that the unions will spend $40 - $60 million dollars running a scare campaign loaded with images of closed schools, crime victims and burning houses trying to sway the uninformed. I don't think there is an appetite for more taxes among the taxpayers, as evidenced by the fact that these taxes were voted down less than 2 years ago.  

The day of reckoning is near.


[ Parent ]
Scare or more likely... (0.00 / 0)
Bitter Reality and Reality Bites, If the current emergency taxes and such are not extended, Then what other choice is there? Short of breaking all sorts of laws(Federal, State, County, City, etc) and court precedents, Extending the current emergency taxes are the only way left and unless You have a credible idea that will work, I'd be quiet and let others try instead.

[ Parent ]
Cut (0.00 / 0)
There are quite a few choices:

What do you think about the idea that state employees can not begin receiving a pension payout until they reach 65?

How about class sizes are increased by 50% thereby eliminating 1/3 of the teachers?

How about all school administrators are given the responsibility of 2 schools in a district instead of 1 and 1/2 the administrators are eliminated?

How about an across the board 15% pay cut for every state employee, regardless of pay grade?

How about shipping California prisoners to Texas, where they can house a prisoner for $25M per year vs California's $70M per year rate and eliminating a substantial portion of the prison guards and their union?

What about all state employees being required to contribute to their insurance and retirements at the same rate as the average private sector employee does?

Do you have a problem with those specifics? Can you name one specific cut you would be for?


[ Parent ]
Over (0.00 / 0)
The party is over.  There will not be new taxes and there needs to be cuts.  You need to cut prisons, social services and schools.  If you don't cut from those three areas you are just kicking the can down the road.

[ Parent ]
RE: Diego in La Puente (0.00 / 0)
Assuming your screen name is remotely associated with your real name I applaud you for breaking the progressive notion that all Latinos (especially from lower income areas, with LP is) are water carriers for progresso-socialist policies and the Democratic Party in particular.

Bravo.

Hi. I'm Charles.  I worked my way from homelessness to a business owner.  Be what you have it in you to be!


[ Parent ]
New Taxes? (0.00 / 0)
Please don't make Me laugh Diego, My income beyond a $15 per month cut by the Legislature is untouchable by the Legislature, But then I'm a Disabled person who collects SSI(Supplemental Security Income), I didn't ask to be disabled and since I can barely do anything around the house, Working for a living would and is out of the question, I do as much as I can before I have to stop as I over heat very quickly and I do have pain problems in My joints & the back as I'm also tall and heavy and so that combo pulls on My spine, The OA that I have is bad enough of course(Osteoarthritis), But the back & joint pain is worse, But then I have nothing to be ashamed of as I've done nothing wrong.

As to Schools You'll find the Majority in this state want both Social Services as well as Schools, Plus Prisons are a necessary thing too. Besides an All Cuts budget is so wrong, Existing Revenue must be protected from those too stupid, delusional and too dangerous for their own good.


[ Parent ]
Here's My answer Diego, Go suck an Egg... (0.00 / 0)
What do you think about the idea that state employees can not begin receiving a pension payout until they reach 65?

Raise Corporate taxes instead. Unless Yer a Corporate Shill?

How about class sizes are increased by 50% thereby eliminating 1/3 of the teachers?

Won't happen If a measure the Governor and the Legislature wants gets on the ballot passes...

How about all school administrators are given the responsibility of 2 schools in a district instead of 1 and 1/2 the administrators are eliminated?

Doesn't sound workable without a lot of money to build schools back to back, Of course If You have the money, Maybe You should put Yer money where Yer mouth is...

How about an across the board 15% pay cut for every state employee, regardless of pay grade?

Then how far above Minimum wage will they be? Not far, So people would quit. Government is composed of people, Not small minded cheapskates.

How about shipping California prisoners to Texas, where they can house a prisoner for $25M per year vs California's $70M per year rate and eliminating a substantial portion of the prison guards and their union?

California Prisoners are Californias problem, Not Texas, Probably not legal anyway.

What about all state employees being required to contribute to their insurance and retirements at the same rate as the average private sector employee does?

Private Sector workers make more money, Level the playing field first, Then We'll see.

[ Parent ]
I wonder... (0.00 / 0)
Your semi-discriminate use of upper case letters, conjugation and word choices approach the magisterial in this one.

I believe there are impediments to your entry into the labor force of which you are unaware.


[ Parent ]
Nah (5.00 / 1)
You think?

My grasp of English predates the internet where It seems some put text up as all lower case.


[ Parent ]
Taxes (4.00 / 1)
NO THANKS
I think I'd rather extend the taxes
I spent 3 weeks in Australia, last month
They're passing a new tax to aid flood victims
No whining, no complaining
Everybody is pulling together to help their fellow citizens

Not at all like the self styled 'Patirots' in America


[ Parent ]
Taxes (1.00 / 1)
That is great news to hear you would rather pay more in taxes!  Your contribution will help close the gap.  They are accepting additional taxpayer money today in Sacramento and I will happily provide you the address to send your check.  If everyone opposed to these drastic cuts would just send some additional money up to Governor Brown, the Republicans would be taught a real lesson.  You could show them how civil the liberals in California really are and shame them for years to come for even suggesting that education be touched.

[ Parent ]
Cause their collectively, Full of It... N/T (0.00 / 0)


[ Parent ]
Where did you get your figures? (0.00 / 0)
Dear Diego,
California real estate is relatively expensive, even after the crash. Plus we're a big state with a lot of housing. So it makes sense that we collect a fair amount in property tax revenues compared to other states. That doesn't mean we have a higher rate. We don't. Somebody I know in Illinois pays twice what I do, even though her house is worth half what mine is.

I've also read elsewhere that California is 37th in tax rates. We receive the most venture capital funding in the country. That paints a very different picture than you do of how business-friendly the state is.

So, while some of the figures you quote may be accurate, others are misleading at the very least. I'd be interested to know where you got them, or if you have any proof that they're true.


Figures (0.00 / 0)
The figures I posted are correct and verifiable with a few simple google searches.  Arguing about tax rates is moot since there is a very good chance the Republicans will not allow the increaes on the ballot and even if they do, they most likely will not be approved by the electorate based on the examples I cited earlier.

So, in a few weeks, the discussion is going to need to change from raising taxes to where to cut next.

See page 11:

http://www.ebudget.ca.gov/pdf/...

$86,552 in spending
$36,079 k-12 spending
$11,490 Higher education spending
$47,569 total eduction spending
$47,569 / $86,552 = 54.96% of the total spending

Also to highlight the problem from the same chart:

$26,346 for Health and Human services (30.4%)
$8,931 for Corrections and Rehabilitation (10.3%)

That is 95% of the budget right there. Go ahead and tell me where we should cut if you don't want to touch education. Remember, we need to trim $27 billion dollars from the budget.


[ Parent ]
Courage ? (0.00 / 0)
Why are Demcorats being so cowardly ??
Just pass the bill to get a public vote
You don't need Republicans
This is almost reminiscent of President Obama's first year

Bi-Partisanship is a mirage
Worse, it's a trap


Courage (0.00 / 0)
I think that it is likely that if they put the taxes on the ballot without a 2/3 majority, some Bush era conservative judge will rule in favor of the whining Republicans and have the taxes thrown out as unconstitutional.  Either way, it would be tied up in court for years.   If they can put the vote on the ballot, why not just raise the taxes and bypass the voters. Do you really think the governor would actually veto the taxes if they were in anyway legal?

[ Parent ]
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